posted 09-30-2000 10:29 PM                          

Fast forward to the future, consoles are more expensive, something I'm willing to accept for the extra bang, but the second controller has been taken out, real games being replaced with demos (PSX2 ups the ante by removing the demo disk altogether). To add insult to injury, most items sold separately ARE overpriced (controllers especially).

Bitching about the inevitable? Maybe, but console makers only do it because consumers let them get away with it. Maybe it's just me, but the PSX2 is such a lousy deal at the moment. 10 years ago, I don't think I would have thought of holding out on it, but here I am.

Saturnman

posted 09-30-2000 10:37 PM                          

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09/28/00-Today in the wacky world of Magic Holoduke:

What do you mean there's not enough of me to go around? -Magic Holoduke

Today's Magic Holoduke was sponsered by: Darkshire- He's Mr. T's biggest fan!

Most wanted games:

1. Dynasty Warriors 2

2. Sakura Taisen III

3. Suikogaiden Volume One

posted 09-30-2000 10:37 PM                       

I wish they would pack in mem cards...like a controller, mem cards are pretty much necessary nowadays.

posted 09-30-2000 10:39 PM                          

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09/28/00-Today in the wacky world of Magic Holoduke:

What do you mean there's not enough of me to go around? -Magic Holoduke

Today's Magic Holoduke was sponsered by: Darkshire- He's Mr. T's biggest fan!

Most wanted games:

1. Dynasty Warriors 2

2. Sakura Taisen III

3. Suikogaiden Volume One

posted 09-30-2000 10:44 PM                       

quote:

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Oh, and PSX2 add's a free DVD player and a PSone, not a bad deal.

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posted 09-30-2000 10:53 PM                       

quote:

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Anywho, the lack of a demo disc is beyond retarded

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You would think with all the bitching and whining going on that people are spending some $300+ just to get their hands on a demo disc. Never mind considering purchasing any of the launch titles. Of course if none of those appeal to you - why purchase the machine now?

Videogames isn't a cheap hobby - it never has been especially for those of us who have been importing hardware and software over the last decade or so.

If you can't afford it - or feel you're being hard done by - go take up kneedlework or something - but take the bitching elsewhere.

posted 09-30-2000 10:55 PM                       

quote:

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You would think with all the bitching and whining going on that people are spending some $300+ just to get their hands on a demo disc. Never mind considering purchasing any of the launch titles. Of course if none of those appeal to you - why purchase the machine now?

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posted 09-30-2000 10:56 PM                       

Atari 2600 179.99 with combat.
NES 179.00 with mario
Genesis 209.99 with altered beast
SNES 199.00 with super mario world
3DO 599 or 699 cant remember which that was on launch day with crash and burn racing.
Sega CD 249.99 launch day demo disk inluded.
32x 149.99 launch day nothing included
Saturn 399.99 1 day after launch with daytona I think can't remember.
PSX 299.99 launch day demo disk with the ever famous dinosaur demo.
N64 199.99 1 month after launch nothing included
Dreamcast 199.00 launch day modem if that counts and demo disk.
In less than a month PS2 299.99
I am not 100% sure on prices but i think most are correct.

posted 09-30-2000 11:00 PM                          

quote:

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You would think with all the bitching and whining going on that people are spending some $300+ just to get their hands on a demo disc. Never mind considering purchasing any of the launch titles. Of course if none of those appeal to you - why purchase the machine now?

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Why purchase it in January when the price is the same? Again with someone defending SONY, how sad, first off it's missing 2 controller ports, memory card, and a demo disc. Demo disc, just adds to pile of 'why?' And look at how halfassed this launch is, 500,000 systems from an initial 1,000,000. It's obvious SONY is getting lazy, end of story.

posted 09-30-2000 11:07 PM                       

I'm not defending Sony. Sega only included one controller with their machine and no mem unit. Expect Nintendo to do the same.

What I'm annoyed at is cheap asses like yourself that infest internet gaming message boards with your whining drivel and diatribe instead of doing something about it. Let me help you out:

a) Don't buy the machines.

posted 09-30-2000 11:31 PM                          

My basic point is not that consoles of today are expensive, but whatever price you pay for them from the get-go is enough in itself. With no games included, you can not play it. You could say they let you choose the games you wanna play. Maybe, but a demo disk is a simple courtesy from the manufacturer pointing you to games you might like (just like you can see trailers of movies when you go to a movie theather or rent a video). Not all gamers are well informed about what's available. Even hardcore gamers like myself enjoy a GOOD demo disk.

The same goes with memory cards. Most games require them yet they're not included when you buy the console. Cost-cutting measure? Crap, that's bleeding the customer.

My example of the Super NES illustrated this. You had a fully functional console from the get-go, with game (plus save-game feature included inside the cart) and even a second controller because not only the pack-in game was 2-player, but a LARGE portion of games out there are two-player.

Those options were included at maybe $30 or $40 extra, but since you needed them anyway, you save much money having them included rather than separated.

And consumers have EVERY right to complain about what they pay for. We're not at the service of console makers, it's up to them to convince us they're worth our money. They used to do more to convince us of this, not anymore. And that is a shame.

Saturnman

posted 10-01-2000 01:26 AM                          

Dreamcast -- No built-in force feedback in controls. Adding on this feature costs the consumer an extra $15-20 to a controller that already costs $30. The modem adds value, but the phsyical modem is just an input slot for RJ-11 phone cords, and actual modulation/demodulation is done thru software, that takes up 10% of CPU time. To my knowledge, SoA has refused to produce a web browser that allows the e-mailing of VMU files, therefore forcing people to purhcase more VMU units (if you're one of the folks that refuses to buy 3rd party periphs). I also kinda doubt that sports games really require 90% of the VMU's available space....but that's debatable.

PS2 -- No demo disc. A dumb and boneheaded decision that will probably cost more sales and than it will create. DVD player adds value, but there's no remote. The lack of controller ports forces those that like multiplayer titles to buy a $30 multi-tap. As with Dreamcast, a lot of the games seem to take up dubiously large amounts of space on the memory card -- sure the storage space has increased dramatically, but that doesn't mean anything if you can still only fit 8-10 game saves on one card.

I'm not sure you can really fault anybody for not including memory cards. They're the biggest moneymaking scam in the industry right now and any company that refuses to use them would be throwing away free money. Oxygen has claimed that you will be able to save X-Box games on the HD, but I don't think MS is stupid enough to turn down all that cash. Gamecube will have many of the same "problems" that most consoles these days have....

IMO, the prices and pack-ins have changed, but the "value" is pretty much the same. DC gives you a modem and a far more advanced controller than SNES ever could have produced at that price. PS2 has backwards compatibility and a DVD player to add value. Now you may say "I don't need DVDs, backwards compatibility, modems, or LCD memory cards," but conversely, the person in 1991 that didn't like Mario and only played 1 player games was getting screwed on SNES. It's a matter of what you think adds value.

I can't be totally sure when I say this, but I think this current generation of consoles is much further ahead of the technology curve than the 16/8-bit ones were when they were released....so it's worth considering that Nintendo/Sega used to skimp on power in favor of adding value (w/ pack-in games and controllers), but now console makers give us raw power in favor of cool little extras.

posted 10-01-2000 01:34 AM                          

It just seems to me these days it's us gamers who need to bend our ass over backwards to accomodate the console makers.

But then again, we have no one to blame but ourselves. Game companies get away with crap, because we let them. They know we'll buy anything they put out there.

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"I ALWAYS WANTED A THING CALLED TUNA SASHIMI"

posted 10-01-2000 05:34 AM                          

quote:

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Again with someone defending SONY, how sad, first off it's missing 2 controller ports,

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<yawn> Bad case of broken record syndrome you have there, bastardly. FWIW, it will cost less to outfit PS2 with four controllers with rumble than it will to do the same for DC. The same was true of PSX and N64 (had a friend who had to outfit his N64 with four rumbling controllers to be able to play 2-player Pod Racer properly: cost him more than the console did in the first place...)

quote:

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memory card,

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Which nobody has packed in with a console since... well, since when exactly? I think my PSX came with one, but I wouldn't swear to it. My PS2 did, but that's because it's the Japanese model and needed it for DVD playback.

quote:

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and a demo disc.

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How terrible. You'll just have to go and buy the first issue of OPSM2 to get a demo disc.

Seriously, I'd have quite liked a demo disc with it, but I can certainly live without, as can most people at a guess. Anyone who's not buying a couple of games with their PS2 is foolish anyway IMO (who other than bastardly wants to spend $300 on a machine just to play a demo disc?) and there will be other sources of demos, presumably at or near launch.