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  For the tech people:Exactly how powerful was the Jaguar?

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Author Topic:   For the tech people:Exactly how powerful was the Jaguar?
Thor
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posted 08-19-2000 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Thor     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Thor      
What system is it most comparable to?SNES,PSX,what?

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Boa Constrictor

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posted 08-19-2000 07:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Boa Constrictor     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Boa Constrictor      
Not powerful Enough.

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PHREDD

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posted 08-19-2000 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PHREDD   Click Here to Email PHREDD     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PHREDD   Visit PHREDD's Homepage!   
This site should answer all your questions.

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[This message has been edited by PHREDD (edited 08-19-2000).]

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Hitokage

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posted 08-19-2000 08:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hitokage     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Hitokage   Visit Hitokage's Homepage!   
TG16

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lilbastard

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posted 08-19-2000 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lilbastard   Click Here to Email lilbastard     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by lilbastard      
Wow...
It seems pretty comparable to the psx and saturn...
Heh...
No games though...

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Urinal-Cake

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posted 08-19-2000 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Urinal-Cake   Click Here to Email Urinal-Cake     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Urinal-Cake      
Fight for Life is still the greatest looking and playing 3D fighter ever made.

Qui!

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COOLIO
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posted 08-19-2000 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for COOLIO     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by COOLIO      
Contrary to popular belief, yes, the Jaguar was a powerful system in the days of SNES and Genesis. The blitter chip gave you a helluva speed boost if you knew how to use it.

There were some bandwidth bottlenecks as I remember, though...

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Cesario Manzo

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posted 08-19-2000 08:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cesario Manzo     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Cesario Manzo   Visit Cesario Manzo's Homepage!   UIN: 33207757
Picture 3DO, only less powerful.

BTW 3DO was a pretty good system, overpriced yeah, but a good system anyways.

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C e s a r i o

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Mandark

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posted 08-19-2000 08:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mandark     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Mandark      
Remember when some Atari exec said in an interview with Next Gen that it was just as powerful as the PSX, only with less RAM?

Oh, and don't forget it's "64 bit." Do the math!

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PrrVrrSss

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posted 08-19-2000 09:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PrrVrrSss     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PrrVrrSss   Visit PrrVrrSss's Homepage!   
Of all the big cats, the jaguar remains the least studied. While some information comes from the wild, most of what is known about jaguars has been learned from captive animals. Wild animals are difficult to study because they are extremely rare, the reason for this will be explained later.

What is known about jaguars is that they are solitary animals, meeting only to mate. The young stay with their mother for a few years before leaving to find their own territory. At about three years, they are fully mature and able to mate

An adult jaguar weighs from 200 to 250 pounds, making it the largest cat in the North America. Jaguars hunt mainly at night. Their range of prey includes such forests and river animals as deer, pigs, sloth, fish, and even small alligators.

The jaguar is a common symbol of strength and power in central and South America. Like the lion in Europe and Africa, jaguars were associated with royalty and strength and bravery in warfare. In Maya civilization, the jaguar served to communicate between the living and the dead as well as protect the royal household. The Maya, known for their aggressiveness and brutal treatment of captives, saw these powerful cats as their companions in the spiritual world. Many rulers even had jaguars attributed to their names, such as 'Shield Jaguar', 'Jaguar Paw', 'Bird Jaguar', 'Smoke Jaguar', and 'Snake Jaguar'

Aztec civilization also had the same image of the jaguar as representative of the ruler and as a warrior. This is best seen in the elite military order of the Jaguar Knights. This order could be joined by anyone, noble or commoner. Admission was obtained through the number of captives taken for sacrifice. Each captive taken advanced a warrior along different orders, and the forth allowed admission to the elite Jaguar Knights, and all the privileges the title entailed. Among these were exemption from taxation and tribute, taking part in war councils, invitations to dine in the royal palace, and the more gruesome: participation in cannibalistic feasts.

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Cuz PrrVrrSss said so...

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PHREDD

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posted 08-19-2000 09:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PHREDD   Click Here to Email PHREDD     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PHREDD   Visit PHREDD's Homepage!   
Yeah Sam Tramiel said Jaguar was more powerful than Saturn and almost as powerful as Playstation in Next Generation magazine. Here is part of that famous interview that I found:
quote:
NG: Is it fair to say that Atari produces excellent products which suffer a poor public image?

Sam: We do make excellent products. We have made mistakes in the market, and some of the circumstances in the computer market just made it impossible to compete. The Jaguar will get proper marketing support and we and others are working hard to deliver great software. Whatever poor image exists will change.

NG: Atari's shifted its emphasis from computers to consoles. Is this a permanent shift or not?

Sam: Around the end of 1989, Atari decided that the computer hardware business was too cut-throat, and a proprietary system could not succeed in the long run against the IBM/Intel juggernaut. We decided to focus on the interactive entertainment market. If the business opportunities exist for us to get back into the computer business, we will. We feel that the Jaguar has a great future and is a very exciting platform at a great price.

NG: But why launch a console now, when everyone else seems to be moving into multimedia hardware?

Sam: The console approach enables us to have a low price starting platform and gives the user the chance to add peripherals as he or she can afford them. The future peripherals will be a CD player, a voice modem, a VR headset and something else I can't reveal. The other new platforms are just too expensive for the consumer and this has been proven by the failure of Commodore's CDTV and the CD players. We are focusing much energy now on the multimedia software that will make Jaguar a success.

NG: Is it true that the Jaguar is a make-or-break product for Atari?

Sam: The Jaguar is not a make-or-break product but it is what we are focusing on. We are also going into the publishing business for PC CD-ROM and perhaps others as well, with another brand name.

NG: Do you think Atari can compete with the giants of the console market, like Sega, Nintendo, 3DO, and Sony?

Sam: Atari invented the videogame business and during the late '70s and early '80s was the dominant company. The industry has been through a number of cycles and we are now entering the fourth cycle. Cycle two was dominated by the NES, cycle three has been shared by Sega and Nintendo and we, at Atari, have put a lot of effort into assuring the success of the Jaguar in cycle four. The Saturn is too expensive and Nintendo doesn't even have a product yet. All Nintendo is doing is trying to confuse the market with disinformation. The 3DO group has doubled the royalty to the software community and the hardware manufacturers aren't happy. The Sony product is just too expensive to be taken seriously, and I can't see Sony focusing on a product that won't have the quantities due to the high price. It will not be a big player.

NG: But the Jaguar is going to be in direct competition with a lot of heavily-backed machines. Does Atari really stand a chance?

Sam: We have some very compelling advantages in terms of power, low price, and lots of good software, with more on the way. We have a very experienced tem. We also have the financing. Also important is our strategic investor, Time Warner, and our new partner, Sega, which gives us another source of good software.

NG: How much input does Time Warner have with Atari? Does it provide monetary help beyond its obligations as a large shareholder?

Sam: Time Warner has no official input into Atari. But we do talk to many of the Time Warner divisions and we value our relationship with them. For example, we were chosen to be scheduled in the Time Warner Cable Full Service Network test in Orlando, FL. We got a license from Warner Brothers for the big Batman Forever movie. We also work closely with Time Warner Interactive and you'll see it publishing many titles on Jaguar in the near future. We have no need for more money at this time, but if we did have a good reason to raise more, Time Warner could be an option.

NG: Why has it taken Atari so long to pursue patent infringement? Why didn't you go after Sega and Nintendo when you bought Atari from Time Warner?

Sam: The issue of patents is very complex and we pursued the issues as soon as it was prudent to do so.

NG: Are you going to pursue Nintendo, 3DO, Sony, and the other console manufacturers in a similar manner?

Sam: I can only say that we will maximize our patents' value and will pursue whatever means necessary to ensure that they aren't infringed upon. We have some precedents and we look forward to more favorable outcomes.

NG: The Sega deal means that you can release any of its titles (excluding Sonic) on the Jaguar. What Sega titles are going to appear on the machine?

Sam: We haven't decided yet.

NG: What steps are you taking to sell Jaguar in the US and Japan?

Sam: We have chosen to make the US the first important market for the Jaguar. It is starting to work. We just introduced the Jaguar into Japan and met more than 60 third party developers in Tokyo. It will not be easy selling a US-made machine in Japan, but we are going to try.

NG: Many industry insiders believe Jack Tramiel imagined revenge on Commodore for the way in which he was ousted from the company. If this is true, is he happy?

Sam: We did not buy Atari as a rode to exact revenge on Commodore. it was a good opportunity to acquire the best-known name in videogames.

NG: Is it true that Atari is considering buying its old-time rival, the shattered Commodore company?

Sam: We aren't happy about the demise of Commodore and have no plans to acquire the leftovers.

NG: Finally, what do you think the future holds for Atari?

Sam: Success.


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These pretzels are making me thirsty.

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Mandark

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posted 08-19-2000 09:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mandark     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Mandark      
Scary.

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The_Geche

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posted 08-19-2000 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for The_Geche   Click Here to Email The_Geche     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by The_Geche      
The Jag was a fine piece of hardware for it's time. It pushes around 20,000 pps. Not bad for it's day...

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Fafalada

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posted 08-19-2000 10:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fafalada   Click Here to Email Fafalada     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Fafalada      
Hardware appeared powerfull, but the architecture was incredibly complex. Never before have I seen multiple cpu's that use different memory strategy trying to work together.
I mean, for rought analogy, it's is pretty much like putting a P3 and G4 together and then trying to have them work like a single cpu system... (just that there were more then 2 of those in Jag).

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PHREDD

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posted 08-19-2000 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PHREDD   Click Here to Email PHREDD     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by PHREDD   Visit PHREDD's Homepage!   
The Jaguar is like a beautiful paint brush, everything else is a crappy ballpoint pen.

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durden

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posted 08-19-2000 10:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for durden   Click Here to Email durden     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by durden   Visit durden's Homepage!   UIN: 52438925
LOL!

I knew that was coming.

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Baron
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posted 08-19-2000 11:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Baron     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Baron      
Hey Urinal-Cake (I can't believe I just typed that) are you serious about your praise for Fight For Life? I can't tell if you're being facetious or not. I've never played it, but the screens look better than Tekken, um, 1, on PSX. Or at least a higher resolution. Give me a bone, por favor.

And what do you mean by "who"?
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the baron has spoken!

[This message has been edited by Baron (edited 08-19-2000).]

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The Snake

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posted 08-20-2000 12:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The Snake     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by The Snake      
Nah, it doesn't even look better than Virtua Fighter. All I know about the Jaguar, was that it was crappy at 3D. Worse than the Saturn, PlayStation and even 3DO. Also, wasn't the CPU a Motorola 68000, like the one used in the Genesis? Wouldn't that make it a 16-bit console?

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The_Geche

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posted 08-20-2000 12:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The_Geche   Click Here to Email The_Geche     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by The_Geche      
The Jag did have 2 16-bit processors but it also had a 32-bit processor...

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Fafalada

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posted 08-20-2000 02:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Fafalada   Click Here to Email Fafalada     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Fafalada      
Phredd,
I believe the better analogy for Jaguar would be a handle that has a paintbrush, ballpen, crayon, and a chalk attached to it.

As for bitness, you had a 68000, which is an arguably 32bit cpu with 16 bit memory interface.
Then there was the risc GPU which was 32bit with 64 bit memory interface, 32bit DSP processor, with 16bit memory interface, and a 64bit object processor.
Oh and the blitter, which was 64bit.
It also used unified memort for ram and VRam.

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"This fu## took 3 days of my life becouse in sony's spec they forgot to mention in visible way that they have reordered clut (MF!)"
(A former co-worker of mine on another rainy autumn day)

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COOLIO
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posted 08-20-2000 05:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for COOLIO     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by COOLIO      
Today's fun fact:

Fight For Life was coded by the guy who wrote the camera and collision systems for Virtua Fighter 1 and 2 at AM2 in Japan.

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The_Geche

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posted 08-20-2000 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for The_Geche   Click Here to Email The_Geche     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by The_Geche      
quote:
Originally posted by COOLIO:
Today's fun fact:

Fight For Life was coded by the guy who wrote the camera and collision systems for Virtua Fighter 1 and 2 at AM2 in Japan.




I believe his name is Francious Yves Bernard.

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There is a crevice in my brain where creatures urinate...

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Sticky_pie
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posted 08-20-2000 05:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sticky_pie   Click Here to Email Sticky_pie     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by Sticky_pie      
WTF!

Sega worked with the Jaguar? Here comes the questions.

What games were released?
Why would Sega compete with it's own Saturn?
Does this mean that Saturn games were ported , or did sega make whole games for the system, or did Atari just have access to their liscenes?

What exactly was the deal, did Atari have some knid of stranglehold that forced Sega to do this?

Tell me more I am shocked.

*Disclaimer*
Please forgive my ignorance I was a gamer in the 16-bit era but after that I didn't rekindle my interest until the N-64.

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Is it 'cause I is Black?

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divvie

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posted 08-20-2000 08:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divvie   Click Here to Email divvie     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by divvie      
No, he left Sega.

John Carmack had a lot of nice things to say about the Jaguar when he was porting Quake to it. He gave Edge an interview a few years ago.

Basically he said that Tom and Jerry were very well designed and you could get very good results if you programmed directly to the graphics chip (TOm?). If you used the 68k CPU as a traditional CPU then you would get results not much better than any 68k based system , I guess, like a Genesis.

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UltraMarioMan

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posted 08-20-2000 09:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for UltraMarioMan   Click Here to Email UltraMarioMan     Edit/Delete Message     Reply w/Quote   Search for more posts by UltraMarioMan      
Uh what Patient Infringement was he talking about? I guess the Jaguar WAS make or break for Atari...

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