posted 09-25-2000 10:01 PM                       

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Part of it is that there's just a general dislike toward Sega by developers and marketing people who have been burned by them in the past.

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Yet, by all reports, the Sega Dreamcast is burning it up at sales (most successful 1st year for a console in US, and almost as many games as N64 has in 4 years of existence), with some software doint remarkably well at retail (Soul Calibur, RE:CV 1.5+mill globally), and it will have (imho) a killer line-up this coming holidays season (maybe not in name recognition, but certainly quality software). DeceasedMeat3 pointed out a lack of an expansion port, thereby meaning no 32X debacle downstream. NFL2k1 doing well in retail (#1 for 2 - or is that 3 - weeks running, influenced perhaps by Seganet??). I am of the belief that Sega, ostensibly, has at least in some part attempted to rectify some past mistakes. What are your opinions about Sega vs. developers/publishers?

posted 09-25-2000 10:15 PM                          

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Leave it to Dennis to sum up NFL 2K1 vs Madden 2001.. (his spelling mistakes not mine)

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Madden is far more realistic at the cost of controle( since I play in coach mode controle doesn't mean anything to me.

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The insight of Thomas Hardy on the X-box..

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I dont have anything against MS. I would rather they stay out of the console business.

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And a quote of myself..

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The DC vs PS2 issue is kinda like the Elvis vs Beatles issue. Some people like Elvis and hate the Beatles, some people like the Beatles and hate Elvis. Some like both. Then there are those who can't stand either one. Damn Nintendo Fans!!

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posted 09-25-2000 10:22 PM                       

password_username: I will not say for certain there exists a general animosity toward Sega, however there does appear to be a number of development houses and publishers in the industry who don't think too highly of Sega.

I do believe there is a LOT of animosity against Sega and they are a LOT of dev houses that want Sega and the Dreamcast dead. Expired. Ceasing to exist. Pushing up daisies. Six feet under. You get the message.

It seems a lot of people won't give dap to Sega either for its games ( unjustified ) nor Sega's business dealings ( and past failings by the sounds of it, which is understandable).

Yes, I realize that this is very unfair that Sega is being shunned and screwed out of getting the support they may deserve - but that's how business goes. $$$ talks and BS walks. That's just how it is.

Yet, by all reports, the Sega Dreamcast is burning it up at sales (most successful 1st year for a console in US, and almost as many games as N64 has in 4 years of existence), with some software doint remarkably well at retail (Soul Calibur, RE:CV 1.5+mill globally), and it will have (imho) a killer line-up this coming holidays season (maybe not in name recognition, but certainly quality software). DeceasedMeat3 pointed out a lack of an expansion port, thereby meaning no 32X debacle downstream. NFL2k1 doing well in retail (#1 for 2 - or is that 3 - weeks running, influenced perhaps by Seganet??). I am of the belief that Sega, ostensibly, has at least in some part attempted to rectify some past mistakes.

Yes, they've had success HERE and that's great... but in the eyes of the developers, there's still that one thing: they're still Sega - which goes right back to their past failures and such. That's a monkey they will NEVER get off their backs.

It's rough and pretty cold to see Dreamcast getting shafted left and right - but you do have to see where guys like EA, Square, THQ and many (MANY) others are coming from as far as developing for a "sure success". Unfortunately, despite their good fortunes here in the US, it's not.

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~Kawshen Rickards
~soon to be proud owner of Dreamcast, PS2 and N-Cube. :D

Sony Cronies. Sega Sheep. NintenDrones. X-Box Blockheads. You can run from them - but you'll NEVER be able to hide from them.

Buy whatever appeals to you and ignore the fanboys. If you think something is better than something else, that's perfectly fine and you have a right to your own opinion. ~ Alex

posted 09-25-2000 10:27 PM                       

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Originally posted by Dragon:
I'd say considering the name of your source, that should explain. Nintendose.com.....hmm, I wonder why they would say anything negative about Sega. They need to look in the mirror cause last time I checked, the N64 didn't have a lot of 3rd party support either.

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posted 09-25-2000 10:27 PM                       

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Originally posted by Dragon:
I'd say considering the name of your source, that should explain. Nintendose.com.....hmm, I wonder why they would say anything negative about Sega. They need to look in the mirror cause last time I checked, the N64 didn't have a lot of 3rd party support either.

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Nintendose didn't say it, the president of Saffire did. Saffire is a multiplatform company.

posted 09-25-2000 11:01 PM                       

Well, sorry to say, they just see the Dreamcast as just a short-term deal. A lot of gamers and developers are using it as "something to do until PS2 comes out". The DC did win some nay-sayers over but don't think for one second that there aren't gamers that would show up to buy a PS2 (or a N³ or an Xbox) with their DCs in tow ready to trade that sucker in towards a purchase. As far as the developers go, THQ openly admitted only using the DC for the short-term.

I can uderstand some big time Japanese developers who may rely on good sales in a three regions (US, Japan, Euro), but many outside Japan aren't giving the DC a second thought.

You're absolutely right. Territories do vary. Correct me if I'm wrong but I recall the MegaDrive (called Genesis here) selling poorly in Japan but it was a huge success here. Regardless, that was in the early 90s and this is now. And NOW, Sega is not exactly linked with the term "success" in the public eye. No matter how hard they try NOW - no matter how many grade-A, high-quality games they churn out NOW - after the devastation and $$$ losses from the Sega CD to the Saturn THEN - they're labeled with one simple word in the eyes of many gamers and a lot of the developers: "loser". The fact that it's more or less OVER in Japan just reinforces the developers' convictions to avoid the DC.

As a Sega fan myself, it hurts saying this - but, again, like I said before, that's just how it is. Money talks.

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~Kawshen Rickards
~soon to be proud owner of Dreamcast, PS2 and N-Cube. :D

Sony Cronies. Sega Sheep. NintenDrones. X-Box Blockheads. You can run from them - but you'll NEVER be able to hide from them.

Buy whatever appeals to you and ignore the fanboys. If you think something is better than something else, that's perfectly fine and you have a right to your own opinion. ~ Alex

posted 09-26-2000 12:52 AM                          

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after the devastation and $$$ losses from the Sega CD to the Saturn THEN - they're labeled with one simple word in the eyes of many gamers and a lot of the developers: "loser".

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I dunno, how many/much did developers actually lose on the Saturn? It's not as if there were that many big-budget 3rd party Saturn games to begin with.

posted 09-26-2000 12:57 AM                       

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Originally posted by opa-opa:
The funny thing is, the Saturn did much better and can be considered a "success" in Japan, but it doesn't seem to be doing DC sales any good over there. On the other hand Saturn bombed in the US and DC is doing better here. Go figure...

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posted 09-26-2000 02:08 AM                       

I dont think you've owned all Sega systems, but each had at least a few damn good games that somewhat justified the purshase of that console in the long run.

I bought these system to play the Sega games that I could not play any where else. Be it a 32X or Sega CD, these "add-ons" were very innovative ideas and they had good games, not many but they were good none the less.

People always point the finger to Sega for their ideas on these 2 add-ons. The way I see it they were trying to expand your exsisting console (Genesis) into something more, but it appears that the developers were not up to it.

Now that I think of it, I believe that it wasn't Sega's fault for the past issues but rather they released ideas that we as the gamers or the developers of that time were not ready for. Has anyone thought for a second that could be the case? Was Sega moving just a bit too fast for us and the developers?

Think about it, at that time I take it most of us were barely in junior high/High school, we could barely get our parents to buy us NES games much less a $299.99 add-on. Or maybe some of us older gamers were barely getting into the job world and wasn't sure about the purchase.

But here we are now, older, wiser and can probably take care of ourselves. Older gamers are now able to buy their own software/hardware.

Lets think of it this way. If the conole gaming world started 6 years later than it really did in '85 (with the NES) and the Genesis was the hot stuff right now, and they announced the 32X and Sega CD and being that a lot of us are at 18+ and probably have jobs now, do you think these systems would have more support? Millions of gamers would have probably bought these add-ons the first day and developrs (the vultures they are) will fock to develop for it... making these a success.

This didn't happen 6 years ago, because at that time we were just the begining of the Gamers' Generation we were at the front lines and back then these games were considered "kids toys" to the world...

Like I said, I feel Sega was just moving a wee bit too fast for us... and it's not such a bad thing, it's pretty good... at least they're moving ahead and trying new things than sitting there waiting for somone else to come up with it and then ride on it's success.

posted 09-26-2000 02:49 AM                       

And it is odd how people love to point out the N64 doing badly in Japan although it has done a lot better than the Saturn did (Six platinum games to one). I think it's because the Saturn did its best in Japan and the N64 did its wost there (or maybe worse in Europe). It's all relative I suppose.

posted 09-26-2000 02:52 AM                       

What was interesting about this was that the negative developer comments focused on Sega's business practice, while the positives were about the actual DC as a machine. So I don't think that developers dislike the DC, but don't like the way Sega's handling of it, and for the most part they didn't seem bothered with Sega's past failures. It is possible though that subconciously they are wary of what happened with the Saturn, 32X and Mega-CD.

But I think the biggest problem is publisher support for the DC. Take Melbourne House, these guys love Sega (its history) and the DC, and because Infrogrammes is supporting the DC at least a little bit, they can develop for it. If they were part of EA, for example then they wouldn't be able to and we wouldn't be getting a game as lovingly made as Le Mans is looking to be.

posted 09-26-2000 03:09 AM                       

What irks me is the fact that developers/publishers are deliberately shunning the DC because of what they perceive to be past mistakes. The route Sega has taken has shown they are committed to circumventing similar episodes from reoccuring. The past isn't terribly likely to repeat itself to any great degree, with respect to Sega and its constituents. What is likely to trigger the demise of Sega's machine once again are those who purport to be providing the content. I know it has been said innumberable times before, but the claims by third parties of Sega's fall will end up being a self-fulfilling prophecy. I am baffled as to why. The US install base is very good given its age, the Euro base is stable, costs of development are relatively low, ease of development is said to be quite good. I'm baffled once again.